christiandiscussions

There are those who claim that man's destiny is predestined by God. Others claim that this is wrong because it means then that man is not responsible for his actions. This is one of the main arguments against Calvinism. But are the two ideas contradictory?

“That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that every­thing is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring” (Charles Spurgeon, “Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility,” New Park Street Pulpit, vol. 4).

I think that last phrase of the quote is absolutely beautiful: "they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring."

As humans our perceptions are so distorted by sin that we cannot imagine how two such concepts can possibly meet. However, we freely accept the Bible is written by man and God - it is God's Word, but he did not bypass the human authors in the writing of it. Likewise in Jesus we see the fullness of God and the fullness of man. How these things work, I have no idea. But it is only human arrogance to think that just because we don't understand something it can't be true.

God predestines and man is responsible , but ALL THINGS work together for good, TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD, to Them who are THE Called according to His purpose.

zadzial wrote:There are those who claim that man's destiny is predestined by God. Others claim that this is wrong because it means then that man is not responsible for his actions. This is one of the main arguments against Calvinism. But are the two ideas contradictory?

I'd like to give my two cents.

“That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that every­thing is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring” (Charles Spurgeon, “Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility,” New Park Street Pulpit, vol. 4).

I love Spurgeon, thank God for giving us such a man.

I think that last phrase of the quote is absolutely beautiful: "they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring."

Indeed, Praise God!

As humans our perceptions are so distorted by sin that we cannot imagine how two such concepts can possibly meet. However, we freely accept the Bible is written by man and God - it is God's Word, but he did not bypass the human authors in the writing of it. Likewise in Jesus we see the fullness of God and the fullness of man. How these things work, I have no idea. But it is only human arrogance to think that just because we don't understand something it can't be true.

I agree. I believe in Predestination, and I also believe man is 100% responsible for his decisions. The decision is left to them, when people hear the gospel they have a choice. The elect will believe because they have been given a new heart and the faith to believe, (John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." ), the reprobate will not nor will they care, they just simply decide not to believe, totally on their own by their own choice. God does not make them not believe, they just don't believe all on their own. Only God know His elect, we can be deceived, I believe the prosperity gospel is a good description of a false gospel and belief (However I do believe there are elect amongst them, they just dont see the the falseness yet, they mature very slow or not at all), they worship a hollow saviour, in fact they worship wealth, health, and other material stuff, they don't truly know Christ.
Is this injustice on God's part? By no means,
God has mercy and compassion on whom He desires.
Romans 9:14-15
To be frank, none of us deserves the lease of His mercies, love or favor, we all deserve death and hell for eternity. In this, He decides, for His own purpose and glory, to save some, to choose a beloved bride for His son. The others still have a choice, even though God's existence is evident in His creation, they still, on their own, reject Him.

For me, these two passages below (though there are many more) shed some light on understanding this subject.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
and,
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Does this make sense to anyone else? Or am I lost in space somewhere?

God Bless.

Hi zadzial,

The truth of Spurgeon's article is undeniable. And your conclusion about it is correct.
I agree that we need to see God as the Sovereign source of all truth -- even truth that we have not yet been fully awakened to.
Certainly, His Word is Truth!

Hi Dennis,

What you have written in response to zadzial's post on Spurgeon's article makes perfect sense to me.

If you are out in space somewhere, it's a good sign that you are separated from the world. That's a good place to be. I hope with all my heart that I'm out of this world right along with you. In the world for Christ -- not of the world's thinking and Satanic suggestions coming from all directions.

The important point, though, is that when one is in Christ, the discernment of truth and error is the guide for our pilgrimage through a lost world that needs to see Christian light shining in the darkness.

What a great light the life of Christ is in this world through His people!